Bloggystyle -- The Greatest: Biggie And The Great Debate

Wednesday, March 09, 2005

 

Biggie And The Great Debate

8 years ago today, the Notorious BIG was killed in a drive by in Los Angeles. For any ignoramuses, that's the occasion Bol was talking about.

Of course, days like March 9 and September 13 are apt to bring out the "great debate," or at least the debate over who's the greatest. Bol's post favorably compares Biggie to a few of the MCs that are considered some of the greatest in stating that Biggie was the greatest of all time.

Of course, not everybody thinks Biggie is the greatest. And I'm in the not everybody crowd. Here's the Johnny Whitewater food chain.

Tupac Shakur > Notorious BIG

The debate almost always centers over these two, probably because they had the infamous beef. Here's what I say to people when responding.

"Biggie was the better MC. Pac was the better rapper."

I think there's a difference between an MC and a rapper. When we're talking about MC skills, we're talking about flow, wordplay and delivery. Flow being the way you string along your rhymes, wordplay obviously being how clever your shit is, and delivery in terms of the emotion and voice during the rhymes. I don't think anyone would argue that Biggie's flow and wordplay is better (unless you're a Pac dickryder). At the same time, I think it's obvious that Pac's delivery was better.

So why would I take Pac over Biggie? Because, as so many have proved before, you can be a perfect MC and still make shitty music. Whether it's something like Jigga's "Justify My Thug" or Nastradamus's "You Owe Me," being a tight MC doesn't make you a good rapper.

In addition to the fact that Biggie put out about enough material to make 3.5-4.5 good CDs, I think Pac's discography (at least before he died + Makaveli) is better. Me Against The World is deeper than any Biggie album. All Eyez On Me was more epic and more rounded than Life After Death. The Makaveli album was on an entirely different level. Biggie's MC skills on Me And My Bitch does not make the song better than Me And My Girlfriend. Pac had enough material for about 20 bootleg albums from his 10 or so months at Death Row, much of it being great. Not only was Pac's music deeper and more rounded, but the guy was about 5 times as prolific as Biggie in making good music by numbers alone.

While I think a majority of people who care would name Pac the greatest rapper of all time, I actually think Pac's MC skills are generally underrated. But that's an entirely different post.

A lot of people like to discuss the gulliness of the individual rappers, as if that has anything to do with their music. The simple truth is that almost every successful rapper does not leave the studio and start bucking. Some people over at BC dot C note Pac was a backup dancer for Digital Underground. Nobody's calling that "gangsta," but Pac also sold drugs, shot a few cops in 93 and got shot 9 times. That's a strong resume in any G contest.

I won't get as specific for the rest, but I'll take Pac's music over the old schoolers, notably KRS-1's and Rakim's for most of the same reasons I just listed above. Pac didn't peak with his first album and subsequently make a Volume 2 or Nastradamus either.

If you're interested in rap music only to hear the skills of the MC, there's a good chance you'll be hearing a lot of bullshit about Chanel and Gucci. If you want to hear good tracks about various aspects of life ranging from death, friendship, partying, religion, the hood, women, bitches, gangs etc. then Pac will have something you'll like.


Comments:
good effort, but no. try to argue against this:

chuck d > 2pac
 
Chuck D > 2Pac in 1991

Chuck D and company were all about politics. In terms of doing that, Chuck D is basically the Jaz-O of that genre.

If I only want to listen to politics based rap, then I'd listen to Chuck D over Pac. For everything else, and in terms of MC abilities, I'd choose Pac.
 
saying chuck d is ALL about politics is just wrong. sure, there was a focus on that, but it by no means was ALL about politics. their first song, for example:

"Well I'm all in, put it up on the board
Another rapper shot down from the mouth that roared
1-2-3 down for the count
The result of my lyrics, oh yes, no doubt
Cold rock rap - 49er supreme
Is what I choose and I use - I never lose to a team
Cause I can can go solo, like a Sugar Ray bolo
Make the fly girls wanna have my photo
Run in their room, hang it on the wall
In remembrance that I rocked them all
Suckers, ducks, ho-hum emcees
You can't rock the kid, so go cut some cheese
Take this application of rhymes like these
My rap's red hot, 110 degrees
So don't start bassin' cause I'll start placin'
Bets on that you'll be disgracing
You and you mind from a beatin' from my rhymes
A time, a crime that I can't find
I'll show you my gun, my Uzi weighs a ton
Because I'm Public Enemy number one"

no offense, but you should listen to more PE before you make generalizations like that.
 
^ Fair enough. Obviously saying PE was all about politics was a generalization. I won't pretend that I listen to much PE, let alone repeatedly, but that's simply a byproduct of the fact that I'm 22.

As for the lyrics you posted, they look like they came from an Eazy E verse :D I can see why the political aspect was the focus.
 
that is the record that got them signed to def jam. its called "public enemy number 1". and thats just one of the songs. dont tell me "bring the noise" is overly politic. have you even heard the album "yo! bum rush the show"?
 
and what does your age have to do with it?
 
" and what does your age have to do with it?"

My age mostly dictates what I've heard a good deal of and what I'm completely familiar with as opposed to stuff like the history of P.E. which was going down in the 80s.

Obviously someone in their 20s will be more familiar with the 90s music than the old school.

I haven't heard Public Enemy's entire discography, thus the generalization. I'm sure you have generalizations about Pac that I could disprove by citing certain tracks too.
 
i am 15. i have listened to every single 2pac record and bought the "makaveli 2-16" bootlegs on ebay, and seen 3 of his movies. so in answer to that, youre wrong.
 
"so in answer to that, youre wrong."

So far, all you've said is that Chuck D and PE weren't 100% about politics. You were correct.

You still haven't explained to me why Chuck D > 2Pac. I gave you my reasoning for disagreeing.
 
> I gave you my reasoning for disagreeing.

your reasoning was that he was 100% about politics, meaning i proved your only reason wrong.

>You still haven't explained to me why Chuck D > 2Pac.

to put it in easy terms:
it takes a nation of millions > anything by pac
 
yo, you cannot have a G.O.A.T. argument without Nas. If your greatest of all time argument is limited to Biggie and Pac then you obviously haven't listened to enough music to be able to have this debate. While I concede that Nas is more inconsistent than the other guys mentioned in most G.O.A.T. debates, he still posesses more pure poetic ability than anyone else to have put out an album save perhaps Rakim. Furthermore, Nas put out the best rap/hip hop album of all time, Illmatic. There are absolutely no holes in that record, none. He also put out two of the most incredible songs of all time- One Mic and What goes around (Poison). The sheer eloquence he expresses in those two songs is at first startling and then downright stunning. Again, I will concede that Nas couldn't have gotten to where he is without Pac coming first, but he took it to an entirely different level which noone else can apporach right now. And for anyone (and there will undoubtedly be someone) who thinks Jay-Z is the greatest ever, go hit a blunt and listen to Illmatic. Hov is sick, true, but he just doesn't compare to Nas or Pac or Biggie or Rakim. Hes best compared to his more contemporary peers.
 
weve talked about word play flow and delivery,

but wat about speed
and lyrics?

for me its like this:
Biggie: Tupac:
Flow Lyrics
Word Play Speed
Delivery
Meaning
(and the list goes on for tupac, how ever for biggie, hes famous for word play and flow, nothing else, commercial music, made him big.)
 
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